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1 <html lang="en" op="item"><head><meta name="referrer" content="origin"><meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0"><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="news.css?SHesn9eAgOUdmXUfxZ4i"> 2 <link rel="shortcut icon" href="favicon.ico"> 3 <title>XFCE Wayland Development Roadmap | Hacker News</title></head><body><center><table id="hnmain" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="85%" bgcolor="#f6f6ef"> 4 <tr><td bgcolor="#ff6600"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%" style="padding:2px"><tr><td style="width:18px;padding-right:4px"><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com"><img src="y18.svg" width="18" height="18" style="border:1px white solid; display:block"></a></td> 5 <td style="line-height:12pt; height:10px;"><span class="pagetop"><b class="hnname"><a href="news">Hacker News</a></b> 6 <a href="newest">new</a> | <a href="front">past</a> | <a href="newcomments">comments</a> | <a href="ask">ask</a> | <a href="show">show</a> | <a href="jobs">jobs</a> | <a href="submit">submit</a> </span></td><td style="text-align:right;padding-right:4px;"><span class="pagetop"> 7 <a href="login?goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654">login</a> 8 </span></td> 9 </tr></table></td></tr> 10 <tr id="pagespace" title="XFCE Wayland Development Roadmap" style="height:10px"></tr><tr><td><table class="fatitem" border="0"> 11 <tr class='athing' id='37506654'> 12 <td align="right" valign="top" class="title"><span class="rank"></span></td> <td valign="top" class="votelinks"><center><a id='up_37506654'href='vote?id=37506654&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center></td><td class="title"><span class="titleline"><a href="https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap" rel="noreferrer">XFCE Wayland Development Roadmap</a><span class="sitebit comhead"> (<a href="from?site=xfce.org"><span class="sitestr">xfce.org</span></a>)</span></span></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="subtext"><span class="subline"> 13 <span class="score" id="score_37506654">138 points</span> by <a href="user?id=LaSombra" class="hnuser">LaSombra</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:16:51"><a href="item?id=37506654">2 hours ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506654"></span> | <a href="hide?id=37506654&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654">hide</a> | <a href="https://hn.algolia.com/?query=XFCE%20Wayland%20Development%20Roadmap&type=story&dateRange=all&sort=byDate&storyText=false&prefix&page=0" class="hnpast">past</a> | <a href="fave?id=37506654&auth=1f59740a6f0eaeb7c0dfd164b59abb378f2607c4">favorite</a> | <a href="item?id=37506654">71 comments</a> </span> 14 </td></tr> 15 <tr style="height:10px"></tr><tr><td colspan="2"></td><td><form action="comment" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="parent" value="37506654"><input type="hidden" name="goto" value="item?id=37506654"><input type="hidden" name="hmac" value="4e62ebebafe3caba4da6e906e82d12d455b9dd9a"><textarea name="text" rows="8" cols="80" wrap="virtual"></textarea><br><br> 16 <input type="submit" value="add comment"></form></td></tr> </table><br><br><table border="0" class='comment-tree'> 17 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507233'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 18 <center><a id='up_37507233'href='vote?id=37507233&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 19 <a href="user?id=jcarrano" class="hnuser">jcarrano</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:42:55"><a href="item?id=37507233">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507233"></span> <span class='navs'> 20 | <a href="#37507687" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507233" n="8" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 21 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 22 <span class="commtext c00">By far the best thing with XFCE is that it does not change, it merely improves. Other DEs and applications radically change the UI between releases.<p>I have my XFCE desktop working as I want now and I don't want to change it or having to learn where buttons are located after an update. With Gnome and Windows I feel like a lab rat for their UI experiments.</span> 23 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 24 <u><a href="reply?id=37507233&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507233">reply</a></u> 25 </font> 26 </div></div></td></tr> 27 </table></td></tr> 28 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507547'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 29 <center><a id='up_37507547'href='vote?id=37507547&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 30 <a href="user?id=hydroid7" class="hnuser">hydroid7</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:32:15"><a href="item?id=37507547">20 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507547"></span> <span class='navs'> 31 | <a href="#37507233" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507370" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507547" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 32 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 33 <span class="commtext c00">Xfce is really the best. Minimalistic, good looking.<p>I only miss 3 column tiling on my ultra wide screen.</span> 34 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 35 <u><a href="reply?id=37507547&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507547">reply</a></u> 36 </font> 37 </div></div></td></tr> 38 </table></td></tr> 39 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507570'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 40 <center><a id='up_37507570'href='vote?id=37507570&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 41 <a href="user?id=bradrn" class="hnuser">bradrn</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:35:50"><a href="item?id=37507570">16 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507570"></span> <span class='navs'> 42 | <a href="#37507233" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507547" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507370" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507570" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 43 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 44 <span class="commtext c00">I’ve used Xfce and XMonad together with great success. I’m on Wayland now (using Sway), but I still miss that combination.</span> 45 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 46 <u><a href="reply?id=37507570&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507570">reply</a></u> 47 </font> 48 </div></div></td></tr> 49 </table></td></tr> 50 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507370'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 51 <center><a id='up_37507370'href='vote?id=37507370&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 52 <a href="user?id=prmoustache" class="hnuser">prmoustache</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:02:04"><a href="item?id=37507370">50 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507370"></span> <span class='navs'> 53 | <a href="#37507233" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507547" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507687" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507370" n="5" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 54 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 55 <span class="commtext c00">Not sure about that.<p>XFCE started as a clone of CDE. Now compare original CDE with XFCE and it is not really the same thing.<p>Sure, Gnome change from v2 to v3 was a major change in UI, but mostly for the better and Gnome kept a way to have a more classic behavior.</span> 56 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 57 <u><a href="reply?id=37507370&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507370">reply</a></u> 58 </font> 59 </div></div></td></tr> 60 </table></td></tr> 61 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507518'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 62 <center><a id='up_37507518'href='vote?id=37507518&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 63 <a href="user?id=ho_schi" class="hnuser">ho_schi</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:28:14"><a href="item?id=37507518">24 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507518"></span> <span class='navs'> 64 | <a href="#37507233" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507370" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507475" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507518" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 65 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 66 <span class="commtext c00">Yep.<p>GNOME makes often changes without long term strategy or asking their actual users. The removal of Type-Ahead-Find in Nautilus or background-transparency in GNOME-Terminal where mistakes. On the other hand new applications like Documents or Console required resources but provide no benefit over it counterparts. That said - Nautilus improved a lot in recent years and there are even patches available for Type-Ahead-Find (or Navigation). Same for background-transparency in the GNOME-Terminal. The separated top-bar-menus were also a problem (decoupling menus from application-windows was copied from Apple) but now reverted, they learn.<p>If the design team is aware of the usage and has a plan things fit well! The overview is great for keyboard and mouse users, the dash make simple things simple, they got rid of the useless <i>desktop-metapher</i> (copied from Win95) and also the system-tray (another thing from Win95). The keyboard focused use of GNOME is use core-feature, fast for experienced users and a relieve for novice users. The GNOME-Shell provided a good UI and removed many questionable ideas of the past.<p>Wishlist?<p>Decouple the release cycle of most applications from GNOME, excepting Nautilus and Settings. There is no need to couple Epiphany, Terminal, Maps, Calendar and so. Evolution already skips every second release. And <i>feature-removal</i> should require a good reasoning and not just „I don’t need that myself“. Many options are bewildering, many forks without merges are worse (lost developers and lost users).</span> 67 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 68 <u><a href="reply?id=37507518&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507518">reply</a></u> 69 </font> 70 </div></div></td></tr> 71 </table></td></tr> 72 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507613'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='3'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="120"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 73 <center><a id='up_37507613'href='vote?id=37507613&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 74 <a href="user?id=gryn" class="hnuser">gryn</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:41:15"><a href="item?id=37507613">11 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507613"></span> <span class='navs'> 75 | <a href="#37507233" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507518" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507475" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507613" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 76 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 77 <span class="commtext c00">My biggest gripe with gnome is how dependent each individual app is on installing the whole gnome-shell packages, want to use their email app without using gnome as a DE, well too bad Gmail/office and all other kind of providers won't work.<p>Gnome feels very anti Unix philosophy.</span> 78 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 79 <u><a href="reply?id=37507613&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507613">reply</a></u> 80 </font> 81 </div></div></td></tr> 82 </table></td></tr> 83 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507475'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 84 <center><a id='up_37507475'href='vote?id=37507475&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 85 <a href="user?id=reidrac" class="hnuser">reidrac</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:22:46"><a href="item?id=37507475">30 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507475"></span> <span class='navs'> 86 | <a href="#37507233" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507370" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507518" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507687" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507475" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 87 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 88 <span class="commtext c00">Surely is more about slow evolution than revolution.</span> 89 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 90 <u><a href="reply?id=37507475&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507475">reply</a></u> 91 </font> 92 </div></div></td></tr> 93 </table></td></tr> 94 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507674'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='3'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="120"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 95 <center><a id='up_37507674'href='vote?id=37507674&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 96 <a href="user?id=prmoustache" class="hnuser">prmoustache</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:50:11"><a href="item?id=37507674">2 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507674"></span> <span class='navs'> 97 | <a href="#37507233" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507475" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507687" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507674" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 98 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 99 <span class="commtext c00">But Gnome did only a revolution once and since then it is the same.<p>I personnally totally saw it as a different project as gnome 2 didn't become obsolete immediately and Mate&Cinnamon forks took over so quickly for those looking for a gnome classic evolution that no one was really forced into using gnome 3.</span> 100 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 101 <u><a href="reply?id=37507674&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507674">reply</a></u> 102 </font> 103 </div></div></td></tr> 104 </table></td></tr> 105 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507687'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 106 <center><a id='up_37507687'href='vote?id=37507687&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 107 <a href="user?id=joseluis" class="hnuser">joseluis</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:51:19"><a href="item?id=37507687">1 minute ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507687"></span> <span class='navs'> 108 | <a href="#37507233" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506733" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507687" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 109 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 110 <span class="commtext c00">My favorite combination is Mint + Xfce + openbox as the window manager which leaves the CPU at 0% when not doing anything, and is very responsive and versatile. I had to setup separate dark themes for each one but now it looks good.<p>The only thing I don't like is thunar freezing often when doing long blocking IO operations...</span> 111 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 112 <u><a href="reply?id=37507687&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507687">reply</a></u> 113 </font> 114 </div></div></td></tr> 115 </table></td></tr> 116 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506733'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 117 <center><a id='up_37506733'href='vote?id=37506733&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 118 <a href="user?id=ducktective" class="hnuser">ducktective</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:30:36"><a href="item?id=37506733">2 hours ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506733"></span> <span class='navs'> 119 | <a href="#37507687" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506733" n="4" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 120 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 121 <span class="commtext c00">Xfce, the "Just Works" of Linux desktop environments not only the DE itself but also its suite of apps like Thunar.<p>They recently moved to gtk4 (or are planning to?). I wonder what would be the difference between gtk3 and gtk4 apps in terms of latency and performance.</span> 122 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 123 <u><a href="reply?id=37506733&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506733">reply</a></u> 124 </font> 125 </div></div></td></tr> 126 </table></td></tr> 127 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507437'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 128 <center><a id='up_37507437'href='vote?id=37507437&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 129 <a href="user?id=donkeybeer" class="hnuser">donkeybeer</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:15:32"><a href="item?id=37507437">37 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507437"></span> <span class='navs'> 130 | <a href="#37506733" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507437" n="3" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 131 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 132 <span class="commtext c00">gtk4 is not good. 133 They have been killing more features and forcing more ui wierdness like overlay scrollbars, etc<p><a href="https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790677#c6" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790677#c6</a><p>I think 4 plans to kill theming too.</span> 134 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 135 <u><a href="reply?id=37507437&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507437">reply</a></u> 136 </font> 137 </div></div></td></tr> 138 </table></td></tr> 139 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507510'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 140 <center><a id='up_37507510'href='vote?id=37507510&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 141 <a href="user?id=CuteDinosaur" class="hnuser">CuteDinosaur</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:27:18"><a href="item?id=37507510">25 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507510"></span> <span class='navs'> 142 | <a href="#37506733" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507437" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507510" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 143 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 144 <span class="commtext c00">I don't understand most of this decisions.</span> 145 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 146 <u><a href="reply?id=37507510&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507510">reply</a></u> 147 </font> 148 </div></div></td></tr> 149 </table></td></tr> 150 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507686'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='3'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="120"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 151 <center><a id='up_37507686'href='vote?id=37507686&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 152 <a href="user?id=rglullis" class="hnuser">rglullis</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:51:18"><a href="item?id=37507686">1 minute ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507686"></span> <span class='navs'> 153 | <a href="#37506733" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507510" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507686" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 154 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 155 <span class="commtext c00">Think of it as the product of the new generation of techies who had their first contact with computers after Mac OSX was released, and now all they can/want to do is emulate Apple and their HIG.</span> 156 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 157 <u><a href="reply?id=37507686&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507686">reply</a></u> 158 </font> 159 </div></div></td></tr> 160 </table></td></tr> 161 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506933'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 162 <center><a id='up_37506933'href='vote?id=37506933&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 163 <a href="user?id=ndsipa_pomu" class="hnuser">ndsipa_pomu</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:59:02"><a href="item?id=37506933">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506933"></span> <span class='navs'> 164 | <a href="#37506733" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506806" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506933" n="16" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 165 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 166 <span class="commtext c00">I used to use XFCE (specifically XUbuntu), but found that its handling of hi-dpi displays on laptops etc. wasn't very good, so switched to Plasma/KDE which seems to work better. Still have issues with certain flatpak apps not scaling properly though.</span> 167 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 168 <u><a href="reply?id=37506933&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506933">reply</a></u> 169 </font> 170 </div></div></td></tr> 171 </table></td></tr> 172 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507556'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 173 <center><a id='up_37507556'href='vote?id=37507556&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 174 <a href="user?id=kwanbix" class="hnuser">kwanbix</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:33:36"><a href="item?id=37507556">19 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507556"></span> <span class='navs'> 175 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507103" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507556" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 176 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 177 <span class="commtext c00">I tried Plasma many times (just briefly installed a distro like Kubuntu), and while very complete, I find it "lifeless". Is purely a graphical sensation. Is like it has no life, compared to Mint with either Cinnamon or Gnome. I don't know how to better explain it.</span> 178 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 179 <u><a href="reply?id=37507556&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507556">reply</a></u> 180 </font> 181 </div></div></td></tr> 182 </table></td></tr> 183 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507666'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 184 <center><a id='up_37507666'href='vote?id=37507666&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 185 <a href="user?id=tetris11" class="hnuser">tetris11</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:49:15"><a href="item?id=37507666">3 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507666"></span> <span class='navs'> 186 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507556" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507103" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507666" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 187 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 188 <span class="commtext c00">> lifeless<p>This is a feature</span> 189 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 190 <u><a href="reply?id=37507666&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507666">reply</a></u> 191 </font> 192 </div></div></td></tr> 193 </table></td></tr> 194 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507103'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 195 <center><a id='up_37507103'href='vote?id=37507103&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 196 <a href="user?id=jeroenhd" class="hnuser">jeroenhd</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:24:19"><a href="item?id=37507103">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507103"></span> <span class='navs'> 197 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507556" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507451" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507103" n="12" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 198 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 199 <span class="commtext c00">If scaling is off, there's a good chance the application is using GTK. GTK4 doesn't support fractional scaling but I believe GTK5 might.<p>If applications are written in GTK2/3/4, fractional scaling won't work well and lead to blurry windows.<p>Integer scaling (1x, 2x, 4x) should work just fine, but fractional scaling isn't implemented consistently across GUI frameworks. Hopefully Wayland will fix the inconsistencies between implementations, though GTK and some other GUI frameworks will likely remain broken for a while.</span> 200 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 201 <u><a href="reply?id=37507103&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507103">reply</a></u> 202 </font> 203 </div></div></td></tr> 204 </table></td></tr> 205 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507177'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 206 <center><a id='up_37507177'href='vote?id=37507177&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 207 <a href="user?id=blueflow" class="hnuser">blueflow</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:36:56"><a href="item?id=37507177">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507177"></span> <span class='navs'> 208 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507103" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507198" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507177" n="6" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 209 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 210 <span class="commtext c00">The constant GTK rewrites are a disaster. Why should applications even bother starting with GTK(n) if it will be obsolete and incompatible when GTK(n+1) comes around?</span> 211 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 212 <u><a href="reply?id=37507177&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507177">reply</a></u> 213 </font> 214 </div></div></td></tr> 215 </table></td></tr> 216 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507349'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='3'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="120"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 217 <center><a id='up_37507349'href='vote?id=37507349&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 218 <a href="user?id=dvdkon" class="hnuser">dvdkon</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:59:34"><a href="item?id=37507349">53 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507349"></span> <span class='navs'> 219 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507177" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507198" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507349" n="5" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 220 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 221 <span class="commtext c00">You're exaggerating. GTK2 came out in 2002, GTK3 in 2011 and GTK4 in 2020. That' s almost a decade for each version, and you have to consider that GTK2 was maintained for a long time after 3's release and that current Linux distros still package it. And the GTK3 to 4 transition required some changes, but far from a rewrite.<p>If you need multi-decade support from your GUI layer, I can recommend raw Win32 or VT100 terminal codes. There's hardly any other API with that kind of backwards compatibility.</span> 222 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 223 <u><a href="reply?id=37507349&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507349">reply</a></u> 224 </font> 225 </div></div></td></tr> 226 </table></td></tr> 227 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507672'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='4'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="160"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 228 <center><a id='up_37507672'href='vote?id=37507672&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 229 <a href="user?id=bandrami" class="hnuser">bandrami</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:50:03"><a href="item?id=37507672">2 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507672"></span> <span class='navs'> 230 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507349" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507464" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507672" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 231 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 232 <span class="commtext c00">Meanwhile a Windows application compiled 25 years ago still runs today. A Windows application compiled 30 years ago runs with a very small compatibility shim you can ship with it as a DLL.</span> 233 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 234 </font> 235 </div></div></td></tr> 236 </table></td></tr> 237 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507464'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='4'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="160"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 238 <center><a id='up_37507464'href='vote?id=37507464&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 239 <a href="user?id=j16sdiz" class="hnuser">j16sdiz</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:20:58"><a href="item?id=37507464">31 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507464"></span> <span class='navs'> 240 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507349" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507672" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507621" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507464" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 241 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 242 <span class="commtext c00">It's the downstream projects.<p>It take 2-3 years to iron out the bugs. Non-gnome downstream take another 3 years to adopt and stabilise.<p>By the time the adoption is finished, another major version emerges.<p>We don't have any good way to maintain compatibility that long.</span> 243 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 244 <u><a href="reply?id=37507464&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507464">reply</a></u> 245 </font> 246 </div></div></td></tr> 247 </table></td></tr> 248 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507621'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='4'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="160"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 249 <center><a id='up_37507621'href='vote?id=37507621&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 250 <a href="user?id=layer8" class="hnuser">layer8</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:42:20"><a href="item?id=37507621">10 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507621"></span> <span class='navs'> 251 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507349" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507464" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507505" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507621" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 252 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 253 <span class="commtext c00">Multi-decade support should be the norm for GUI toolkits. Why should all GUI apps of the world have to be rewritten every decade? That’s just a wasteful use of developer resources, and also a wasteful disruption of end user habituation.</span> 254 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 255 <u><a href="reply?id=37507621&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507621">reply</a></u> 256 </font> 257 </div></div></td></tr> 258 </table></td></tr> 259 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507505'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='4'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="160"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 260 <center><a id='up_37507505'href='vote?id=37507505&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 261 <a href="user?id=badsectoracula" class="hnuser">badsectoracula</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:26:55"><a href="item?id=37507505">25 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507505"></span> <span class='navs'> 262 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507349" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507621" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507198" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507505" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 263 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 264 <span class="commtext c00">> There's hardly any other API with that kind of backwards compatibility.<p>X11/Xlib, though obviously you have to do the GUI bits yourself (but then you mentioned VT100 terminal codes so i guess that is acceptable).<p>Also AFAIK Motif is backwards compatible going back to the 90s.</span> 265 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 266 <u><a href="reply?id=37507505&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507505">reply</a></u> 267 </font> 268 </div></div></td></tr> 269 </table></td></tr> 270 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507198'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 271 <center><a id='up_37507198'href='vote?id=37507198&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 272 <a href="user?id=d-k-bo" class="hnuser">d-k-bo</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:39:33"><a href="item?id=37507198">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507198"></span> <span class='navs'> 273 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507103" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507177" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507179" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507198" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 274 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 275 <span class="commtext c00">On Wayland, GTK3/4 windows work well with fractional scaling (on GNOME). They are rendered at 200% and then downscaled by the compositor, which looks mostly fine.<p>Blurryness is often caused by GTK2/old Qt5/Electron applications that don't support Wayland and are rendered using XWayland at 100% and then upscaled by the compositor.</span> 276 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 277 <u><a href="reply?id=37507198&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507198">reply</a></u> 278 </font> 279 </div></div></td></tr> 280 </table></td></tr> 281 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507179'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 282 <center><a id='up_37507179'href='vote?id=37507179&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 283 <a href="user?id=csdreamer7" class="hnuser">csdreamer7</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:37:03"><a href="item?id=37507179">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507179"></span> <span class='navs'> 284 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507103" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507198" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507190" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507179" n="3" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 285 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 286 <span class="commtext c00">> GTK4 doesn't support fractional scaling but I believe GTK5 might.<p>I do not think this is current info, but otherwise might be the reason as it is an experimental feature.<p>For example, you can enable fractional scaling in GNOME right now.<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjfZ8TSXsps">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjfZ8TSXsps</a><p>This phoronix article shows the variable to enable it in GTK.<p><a href="https://www.phoronix.com/news/GTK-4.11.1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.phoronix.com/news/GTK-4.11.1</a><p>Edit: added a little clarification + cited the specific bit of text I was responding to.</span> 287 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 288 <u><a href="reply?id=37507179&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507179">reply</a></u> 289 </font> 290 </div></div></td></tr> 291 </table></td></tr> 292 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507322'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='3'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="120"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 293 <center><a id='up_37507322'href='vote?id=37507322&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 294 <a href="user?id=bitwize" class="hnuser">bitwize</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:56:52"><a href="item?id=37507322">55 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507322"></span> <span class='navs'> 295 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507179" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507190" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507322" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 296 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 297 <span class="commtext c00">Then it really is time to pull the plug, and remove X11 support from the major toolkits and DEs.</span> 298 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 299 <u><a href="reply?id=37507322&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507322">reply</a></u> 300 </font> 301 </div></div></td></tr> 302 </table></td></tr> 303 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507694'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='4'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="160"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 304 <center><a id='up_37507694'href='vote?id=37507694&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 305 <a href="user?id=bandrami" class="hnuser">bandrami</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:52:01"><a href="item?id=37507694">0 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507694"></span> <span class='navs'> 306 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507322" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507190" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507694" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 307 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 308 <span class="commtext c00">What is this obsession people have with ripping out working code?<p>Debian still ships support for token ring; the idea that X11 is ever "going away" really misunderstands how free software works.</span> 309 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 310 </font> 311 </div></div></td></tr> 312 </table></td></tr> 313 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507190'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 314 <center><a id='up_37507190'href='vote?id=37507190&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 315 <a href="user?id=ndsipa_pomu" class="hnuser">ndsipa_pomu</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:38:47"><a href="item?id=37507190">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507190"></span> <span class='navs'> 316 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507103" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507179" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507451" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507190" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 317 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 318 <span class="commtext c00">Just checked and I've got my current laptop screen set to 175% global scaling for a 3840x2160 screen.</span> 319 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 320 <u><a href="reply?id=37507190&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507190">reply</a></u> 321 </font> 322 </div></div></td></tr> 323 </table></td></tr> 324 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507451'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 325 <center><a id='up_37507451'href='vote?id=37507451&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 326 <a href="user?id=clircle" class="hnuser">clircle</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:18:14"><a href="item?id=37507451">34 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507451"></span> <span class='navs'> 327 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507103" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506806" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507451" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 328 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 329 <span class="commtext c00">I never got a hi-dpi display completely satisfactorily with _any_ linux desktop.</span> 330 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 331 <u><a href="reply?id=37507451&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507451">reply</a></u> 332 </font> 333 </div></div></td></tr> 334 </table></td></tr> 335 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506806'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 336 <center><a id='up_37506806'href='vote?id=37506806&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 337 <a href="user?id=bradley13" class="hnuser">bradley13</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:40:25"><a href="item?id=37506806">2 hours ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506806"></span> <span class='navs'> 338 | <a href="#37506933" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507289" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506806" n="6" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 339 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 340 <span class="commtext c00">I've been using Xubuntu for years - it just works, with no clutter. Absolutely my only complaint are the very thin window borders - this is a setting you cannot individually adjust. However, one quickly gets used to (alt + right-click + drag).</span> 341 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 342 <u><a href="reply?id=37506806&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506806">reply</a></u> 343 </font> 344 </div></div></td></tr> 345 </table></td></tr> 346 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507078'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 347 <center><a id='up_37507078'href='vote?id=37507078&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 348 <a href="user?id=anon____" class="hnuser">anon____</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:20:08"><a href="item?id=37507078">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507078"></span> <span class='navs'> 349 | <a href="#37506806" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506936" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507078" n="3" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 350 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 351 <span class="commtext c00">Alt+space brings up the window menu. Press R to resize, or M to move the window with either the arrow keys or by moving the mouse pointer. Finalize with Enter, cancel with Escape.</span> 352 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 353 <u><a href="reply?id=37507078&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507078">reply</a></u> 354 </font> 355 </div></div></td></tr> 356 </table></td></tr> 357 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507470'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 358 <center><a id='up_37507470'href='vote?id=37507470&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 359 <a href="user?id=bmacho" class="hnuser">bmacho</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:22:04"><a href="item?id=37507470">30 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507470"></span> <span class='navs'> 360 | <a href="#37506806" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507078" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506936" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507470" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 361 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 362 <span class="commtext c00">Can you resize a window with only the arrow keys? For example hit r+up and raise the upper border upward, then s+left, and shrink the window by moving the right border leftward, or something like that?</span> 363 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 364 <u><a href="reply?id=37507470&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507470">reply</a></u> 365 </font> 366 </div></div></td></tr> 367 </table></td></tr> 368 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507617'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='3'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="120"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 369 <center><a id='up_37507617'href='vote?id=37507617&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 370 <a href="user?id=anon____" class="hnuser">anon____</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:42:05"><a href="item?id=37507617">10 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507617"></span> <span class='navs'> 371 | <a href="#37506806" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507470" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506936" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507617" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 372 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 373 <span class="commtext c00">Yes. After pressing Alt+space then R, the first pressing of an arrow key selects the border you want to move, let's say the left. You can then move that with the left/right arrows. If you press up or down in this state, it will, again, select the corresponding border to work on.</span> 374 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 375 <u><a href="reply?id=37507617&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507617">reply</a></u> 376 </font> 377 </div></div></td></tr> 378 </table></td></tr> 379 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506936'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 380 <center><a id='up_37506936'href='vote?id=37506936&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 381 <a href="user?id=kreddor" class="hnuser">kreddor</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:59:11"><a href="item?id=37506936">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506936"></span> <span class='navs'> 382 | <a href="#37506806" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507078" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507289" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506936" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 383 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 384 <span class="commtext c00">Seems to be a major problem in many desktop environments. I use the "super + right-click" in Gnome for the same reason (Ubuntu).</span> 385 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 386 <u><a href="reply?id=37506936&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506936">reply</a></u> 387 </font> 388 </div></div></td></tr> 389 </table></td></tr> 390 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506980'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 391 <center><a id='up_37506980'href='vote?id=37506980&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 392 <a href="user?id=Vinnl" class="hnuser">Vinnl</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:06:30"><a href="item?id=37506980">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506980"></span> <span class='navs'> 393 | <a href="#37506806" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37506936" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507289" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506980" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 394 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 395 <span class="commtext c00">On GNOME you should be able to click in the area near the window borders (e.g. in the drop shadow) to select them and be able to resize the windows.</span> 396 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 397 <u><a href="reply?id=37506980&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506980">reply</a></u> 398 </font> 399 </div></div></td></tr> 400 </table></td></tr> 401 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507289'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 402 <center><a id='up_37507289'href='vote?id=37507289&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 403 <a href="user?id=throwaway914" class="hnuser">throwaway914</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:51:19"><a href="item?id=37507289">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507289"></span> <span class='navs'> 404 | <a href="#37506806" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507039" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507289" n="6" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 405 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 406 <span class="commtext c00">There are a couple reasons I can only back Gnome at this point, even though I loved/miss XFCE.<p>Wayland multi-seat + idle-inhibition 407 HDR + variable refresh 408 Fractional scaling (I think XFCE has some/all of this?)<p>We're just playing catchup to MacOS for over a decade, and soon enough Linux will have to compete with 3d desktop environments (Apple Vision Pro interface). I think we're almost to the point where the DE will be just a physics simulator (game engine) to help augment your reality.<p>Anyway, I still use XFCE on resource-limited hardware but Gnome has been the only option for a while because progress isn't being made by other DEs on these critical things (color, refresh, alpha-composition, and some wayland protocols missing in wlroots).<p>I'm just glad Gnome isn't the dependency hell it used to be, and has slimmed down. I really love what they've done with GJS but I believe there's a competing KDE bindings project.<p></naive></span> 409 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 410 <u><a href="reply?id=37507289&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507289">reply</a></u> 411 </font> 412 </div></div></td></tr> 413 </table></td></tr> 414 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507395'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 415 <center><a id='up_37507395'href='vote?id=37507395&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 416 <a href="user?id=nine_k" class="hnuser">nine_k</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:06:40"><a href="item?id=37507395">46 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507395"></span> <span class='navs'> 417 | <a href="#37507289" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507367" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507395" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 418 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 419 <span class="commtext c00">The point of Xfce for me is that it is configurable, the way Gnome is explicitly not.<p>Of all that, I only care about fractional scaling. Uf I wanted Apple-like experience, I'd be using a Mac. Imitating Mac experience on different hardware can be a worthy goal, but it's definitely not the only worthy goal.</span> 420 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 421 <u><a href="reply?id=37507395&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507395">reply</a></u> 422 </font> 423 </div></div></td></tr> 424 </table></td></tr> 425 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507367'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 426 <center><a id='up_37507367'href='vote?id=37507367&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 427 <a href="user?id=rkangel" class="hnuser">rkangel</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:01:44"><a href="item?id=37507367">51 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507367"></span> <span class='navs'> 428 | <a href="#37507289" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507395" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507439" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507367" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 429 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 430 <span class="commtext c00">> Wayland multi-seat + idle-inhibition HDR + variable refresh Fractional scaling<p>The move to Wayland is interesting to observe. On first glance it seems that moving to Wayland provides a load of burden on DEs that they never had before - and not just because of the work required to transition. And that obviously this is all Wayland's fault.<p>What I think is <i>actually</i> going on though is that we expect quite a rich feature set from a modern DE - exactly as you have listed.<p>We could never do most of this stuff on X, but Wayland enables it and then follows a load of work to get it all going.<p>In an ideal world there would be a nice clean abstraction boundary between compositor and DE so that this underlying work was shared between DEs. Maybe that is possible, but people who know what they're talking about seem to agree that the Wayland approach is the right way to go and I don't know enough to disagree. Plus, it makes some intuitive sense that your DE should know how windows share rendering space.</span> 431 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 432 <u><a href="reply?id=37507367&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507367">reply</a></u> 433 </font> 434 </div></div></td></tr> 435 </table></td></tr> 436 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507439'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 437 <center><a id='up_37507439'href='vote?id=37507439&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 438 <a href="user?id=blablablerg" class="hnuser">blablablerg</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:15:58"><a href="item?id=37507439">36 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507439"></span> <span class='navs'> 439 | <a href="#37507289" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507367" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507335" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507439" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 440 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 441 <span class="commtext c00">Not so sure that VR will take off that much, or that soon. The Apple Vision Pro is still pretty heavy, working for hours with that thing, well I hope you have strong neck muscles.</span> 442 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 443 <u><a href="reply?id=37507439&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507439">reply</a></u> 444 </font> 445 </div></div></td></tr> 446 </table></td></tr> 447 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507335'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 448 <center><a id='up_37507335'href='vote?id=37507335&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 449 <a href="user?id=prmoustache" class="hnuser">prmoustache</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:58:19"><a href="item?id=37507335">54 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507335"></span> <span class='navs'> 450 | <a href="#37507289" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507439" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507404" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507335" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 451 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 452 <span class="commtext c00">xfce isn't even useful on resource limited hardware, you are better of using a much lighter weight wm like icewm , openbox or fluxbox + a lightweight launcher and a lighter set of file managers and viewers [1].<p>[1] even window maker could do it, I saw it was recently updated.</span> 453 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 454 <u><a href="reply?id=37507335&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507335">reply</a></u> 455 </font> 456 </div></div></td></tr> 457 </table></td></tr> 458 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507404'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 459 <center><a id='up_37507404'href='vote?id=37507404&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 460 <a href="user?id=khimaros" class="hnuser">khimaros</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:08:01"><a href="item?id=37507404">44 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507404"></span> <span class='navs'> 461 | <a href="#37507289" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507335" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507039" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507404" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 462 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 463 <span class="commtext c00">on the topic of XR desktop environments, Linux is possibly well positioned with projects such as monado, xrdesktop, and SimulaVR: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXQnWJpMLn4">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXQnWJpMLn4</a></span> 464 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 465 <u><a href="reply?id=37507404&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507404">reply</a></u> 466 </font> 467 </div></div></td></tr> 468 </table></td></tr> 469 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507039'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 470 <center><a id='up_37507039'href='vote?id=37507039&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 471 <a href="user?id=lizknope" class="hnuser">lizknope</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:14:50"><a href="item?id=37507039">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507039"></span> <span class='navs'> 472 | <a href="#37507289" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506986" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507039" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 473 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 474 <span class="commtext c00">I've been using XFCE for the last 15 years. Before that it was vtwm, fvwm, afterstep, but I could never get into GNOME or KDE. XFCE just does everything I need and I don't see any reason to switch.</span> 475 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 476 <u><a href="reply?id=37507039&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507039">reply</a></u> 477 </font> 478 </div></div></td></tr> 479 </table></td></tr> 480 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506986'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 481 <center><a id='up_37506986'href='vote?id=37506986&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 482 <a href="user?id=dathinab" class="hnuser">dathinab</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:07:24"><a href="item?id=37506986">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506986"></span> <span class='navs'> 483 | <a href="#37507039" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506700" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506986" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 484 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 485 <span class="commtext c00">> As long as Nvidia does not support Wayland<p>AFIK this problem was solved ~2 years ago when Nvidia added support for GBM in version 495.44 (<a href="https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/181274/en-us/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/181274/en...</a>)</span> 486 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 487 <u><a href="reply?id=37506986&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506986">reply</a></u> 488 </font> 489 </div></div></td></tr> 490 </table></td></tr> 491 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507615'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 492 <center><a id='up_37507615'href='vote?id=37507615&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 493 <a href="user?id=jadbox" class="hnuser">jadbox</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:41:59"><a href="item?id=37507615">10 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507615"></span> <span class='navs'> 494 | <a href="#37506986" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506700" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507615" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 495 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 496 <span class="commtext c00">I'm running KDE Wayland on Nvidia. It's mostly just fine. There's minor quirks with some apps, but the DE does feel smoother to me.</span> 497 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 498 <u><a href="reply?id=37507615&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507615">reply</a></u> 499 </font> 500 </div></div></td></tr> 501 </table></td></tr> 502 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506700'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 503 <center><a id='up_37506700'href='vote?id=37506700&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 504 <a href="user?id=pjmlp" class="hnuser">pjmlp</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:24:46"><a href="item?id=37506700">2 hours ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506700"></span> <span class='navs'> 505 | <a href="#37506986" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507424" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506700" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 506 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 507 <span class="commtext c00">XFCE has become my go to desktop environment after Ubuntu dropped Unity, so it is nice to see an updated roadmap.</span> 508 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 509 <u><a href="reply?id=37506700&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506700">reply</a></u> 510 </font> 511 </div></div></td></tr> 512 </table></td></tr> 513 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507424'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 514 <center><a id='up_37507424'href='vote?id=37507424&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 515 <a href="user?id=not_your_vase" class="hnuser">not_your_vase</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:12:26"><a href="item?id=37507424">40 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507424"></span> <span class='navs'> 516 | <a href="#37506700" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507667" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507424" n="5" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 517 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 518 <span class="commtext c00">Wayland protocol will celebrate its 15th birthday later this month. TFA is great news, but something isn't right here.<p>I really start to think that the X11->Wayland migration is a bigger clusterfuck than Python2->3 was - even if we consider that a compositor migration is much bigger task than Python migration.</span> 519 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 520 <u><a href="reply?id=37507424&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507424">reply</a></u> 521 </font> 522 </div></div></td></tr> 523 </table></td></tr> 524 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507456'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 525 <center><a id='up_37507456'href='vote?id=37507456&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 526 <a href="user?id=umanwizard" class="hnuser">umanwizard</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:18:57"><a href="item?id=37507456">33 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507456"></span> <span class='navs'> 527 | <a href="#37507424" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507667" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507456" n="4" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 528 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 529 <span class="commtext c00">Python 3 at least worked immediately. Wayland still has tons of issues.</span> 530 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 531 <u><a href="reply?id=37507456&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507456">reply</a></u> 532 </font> 533 </div></div></td></tr> 534 </table></td></tr> 535 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507546'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 536 <center><a id='up_37507546'href='vote?id=37507546&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 537 <a href="user?id=dontlaugh" class="hnuser">dontlaugh</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:32:13"><a href="item?id=37507546">20 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507546"></span> <span class='navs'> 538 | <a href="#37507424" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507456" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507473" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507546" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 539 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 540 <span class="commtext c00">Lots of libraries were missing or broken for Python 3 for many years. If anything, it was far less usable than Wayland.</span> 541 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 542 <u><a href="reply?id=37507546&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507546">reply</a></u> 543 </font> 544 </div></div></td></tr> 545 </table></td></tr> 546 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507473'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 547 <center><a id='up_37507473'href='vote?id=37507473&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 548 <a href="user?id=j16sdiz" class="hnuser">j16sdiz</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:22:36"><a href="item?id=37507473">30 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507473"></span> <span class='navs'> 549 | <a href="#37507424" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507456" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507546" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507667" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507473" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 550 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 551 <span class="commtext c00">For GNOME user, it is starting to become usable recently<p>Not so luck for non-GNOME user</span> 552 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 553 <u><a href="reply?id=37507473&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507473">reply</a></u> 554 </font> 555 </div></div></td></tr> 556 </table></td></tr> 557 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507647'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='3'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="120"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 558 <center><a id='up_37507647'href='vote?id=37507647&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 559 <a href="user?id=gryn" class="hnuser">gryn</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:46:29"><a href="item?id=37507647">6 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507647"></span> <span class='navs'> 560 | <a href="#37507424" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507473" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507667" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507647" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 561 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 562 <span class="commtext c00">Wayland on sway has been a smooth sailing for me, the only thing that made be go back was barriers KVM not working and not finding an open source alternative that works for both Linux and windows.</span> 563 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 564 <u><a href="reply?id=37507647&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507647">reply</a></u> 565 </font> 566 </div></div></td></tr> 567 </table></td></tr> 568 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507667'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 569 <center><a id='up_37507667'href='vote?id=37507667&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 570 <a href="user?id=igtztorrero" class="hnuser">igtztorrero</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:49:16"><a href="item?id=37507667">3 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507667"></span> <span class='navs'> 571 | <a href="#37507424" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507251" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507667" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 572 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 573 <span class="commtext c00">XCFE is they best, please keep it simple.<p>I have used it for 7 years and I love it !<p>May God keep away animations from XCFE allways !</span> 574 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 575 <u><a href="reply?id=37507667&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507667">reply</a></u> 576 </font> 577 </div></div></td></tr> 578 </table></td></tr> 579 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507251'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 580 <center><a id='up_37507251'href='vote?id=37507251&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 581 <a href="user?id=toastal" class="hnuser">toastal</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:46:04"><a href="item?id=37507251">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507251"></span> <span class='navs'> 582 | <a href="#37507667" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507153" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507251" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 583 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 584 <span class="commtext c00">The march to Wayland hopefully doesn’t complete until color management & DisplayLink are merged. I had to go back to X11 because of missing features.</span> 585 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 586 <u><a href="reply?id=37507251&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507251">reply</a></u> 587 </font> 588 </div></div></td></tr> 589 </table></td></tr> 590 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507153'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 591 <center><a id='up_37507153'href='vote?id=37507153&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 592 <a href="user?id=Nursie" class="hnuser">Nursie</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:32:48"><a href="item?id=37507153">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507153"></span> <span class='navs'> 593 | <a href="#37507251" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506795" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507153" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 594 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 595 <span class="commtext c00">I really love XFCE. I used it on and off on low-resource machines since the late 00s, and then moved to it for my main desktop when the Gnome3 thing happened. I've never looked back (though I'll admit I'm also a macbook user!).<p>What do I like? It's never forced me to change the way I work. That's up to me.<p>So if Wayland is the future, then I look forward to using XFCE on Wayland somewhere down the line too.</span> 596 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 597 <u><a href="reply?id=37507153&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507153">reply</a></u> 598 </font> 599 </div></div></td></tr> 600 </table></td></tr> 601 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506795'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 602 <center><a id='up_37506795'href='vote?id=37506795&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 603 <a href="user?id=esarbe" class="hnuser">esarbe</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:38:46"><a href="item?id=37506795">2 hours ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506795"></span> <span class='navs'> 604 | <a href="#37507153" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506794" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506795" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 605 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 606 <span class="commtext c00">Not an XFCE user (I'm comfortably satisfied with the simplicity that is Gnome) but I'm very happy to see XFCE's concrete plans to move towards Wayland!</span> 607 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 608 <u><a href="reply?id=37506795&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506795">reply</a></u> 609 </font> 610 </div></div></td></tr> 611 </table></td></tr> 612 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506794'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 613 <center><a id='up_37506794'href='vote?id=37506794&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 614 <a href="user?id=luciusdomitius" class="hnuser">luciusdomitius</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:38:32"><a href="item?id=37506794">2 hours ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506794"></span> <span class='navs'> 615 | <a href="#37506795" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507024" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506794" n="6" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 616 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 617 <span class="commtext c00">XFCE is frankly the last full featured Desktop Environment, truly focusing on responsiveness and zero-lag SGI-style: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EEY87HAHzk&pp=ygUbc2lsaWNvbiBncmFwaGljcyBjb21tZXJjaWFs">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EEY87HAHzk&pp=ygUbc2lsaWNvb...</a> 618 MacOS X, Windows and the mainstream Linux DEs have nice animations, but it is fun watching them the first day. After that it is just annoying.<p>Really hope that Wayland integration works well for them.</span> 619 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 620 <u><a href="reply?id=37506794&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506794">reply</a></u> 621 </font> 622 </div></div></td></tr> 623 </table></td></tr> 624 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507185'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 625 <center><a id='up_37507185'href='vote?id=37507185&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 626 <a href="user?id=Qwertious" class="hnuser">Qwertious</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:37:55"><a href="item?id=37507185">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507185"></span> <span class='navs'> 627 | <a href="#37506794" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507012" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507185" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 628 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 629 <span class="commtext c00">>MacOS X, Windows and the mainstream Linux DEs have nice animations, but it is fun watching them the first day. After that it is just annoying.<p>Wobbly Windows are <i>amazing</i> and never get old. It's been years, and I still get joy from them.<p>I'm sure there are other nice effects too, but I don't feel that strongly about them - Wobbly Windows are the hill I'd die on.</span> 630 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 631 <u><a href="reply?id=37507185&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507185">reply</a></u> 632 </font> 633 </div></div></td></tr> 634 </table></td></tr> 635 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507012'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 636 <center><a id='up_37507012'href='vote?id=37507012&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 637 <a href="user?id=pjerem" class="hnuser">pjerem</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:10:58"><a href="item?id=37507012">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507012"></span> <span class='navs'> 638 | <a href="#37506794" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507185" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507218" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507012" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 639 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 640 <span class="commtext c00">Cinnamon is also in this ballpark. Each have their strengths and weaknesses but both are awesome.<p>Both are pretty dumb when it comes to Hi-DPI support although Cinnamon does an acceptable job at staying coherent when configured with bigger fonts so it’s a workaround. XFCE manages bigger fonts very badly so I have big hopes that real Hi-DPI support will be better with wayland.</span> 641 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 642 <u><a href="reply?id=37507012&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507012">reply</a></u> 643 </font> 644 </div></div></td></tr> 645 </table></td></tr> 646 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507523'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 647 <center><a id='up_37507523'href='vote?id=37507523&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 648 <a href="user?id=luciusdomitius" class="hnuser">luciusdomitius</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:29:03"><a href="item?id=37507523">23 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507523"></span> <span class='navs'> 649 | <a href="#37506794" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507012" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507218" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507523" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 650 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 651 <span class="commtext c00">You tell me. My biggest pain with XFCE is multi-monitor support. Like having the menu bar also on the second display and not have two of them when you switch back to single-monitor.</span> 652 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 653 <u><a href="reply?id=37507523&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507523">reply</a></u> 654 </font> 655 </div></div></td></tr> 656 </table></td></tr> 657 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507218'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 658 <center><a id='up_37507218'href='vote?id=37507218&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 659 <a href="user?id=circuit10" class="hnuser">circuit10</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:41:41"><a href="item?id=37507218">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507218"></span> <span class='navs'> 660 | <a href="#37506794" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507012" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507393" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507218" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 661 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 662 <span class="commtext c00">As long as the animations are done right (subtle and short) they make the experience feel smoother without slowing you down or annoying you. At least that’s my experience, it’s probably not the same for everyone</span> 663 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 664 <u><a href="reply?id=37507218&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507218">reply</a></u> 665 </font> 666 </div></div></td></tr> 667 </table></td></tr> 668 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507393'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 669 <center><a id='up_37507393'href='vote?id=37507393&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 670 <a href="user?id=prmoustache" class="hnuser">prmoustache</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:06:29"><a href="item?id=37507393">46 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507393"></span> <span class='navs'> 671 | <a href="#37506794" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507218" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37507024" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507393" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 672 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 673 <span class="commtext c73">It is not like people have superherofast reaction times. The lag and responsiveness is mostly a matter a perception.<p>And in gnome's case you can just disable animations in Settings-->Accessibility-->Seeing-->Reduce animation</span> 674 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 675 <u><a href="reply?id=37507393&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507393">reply</a></u> 676 </font> 677 </div></div></td></tr> 678 </table></td></tr> 679 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507024'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 680 <center><a id='up_37507024'href='vote?id=37507024&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 681 <a href="user?id=nava_nmr" class="hnuser">nava_nmr</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:12:20"><a href="item?id=37507024">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507024"></span> <span class='navs'> 682 | <a href="#37506794" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506876" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507024" n="3" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 683 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 684 <span class="commtext c00">When I use AWS workspace in X11, The clipboard contents can be shared across host and guest VMs. In wayland, the clipboard is not syncing with AWS VM.<p>Is it the way like this? is there any workaround? 685 Could someone please enlighten me?</span> 686 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 687 <u><a href="reply?id=37507024&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507024">reply</a></u> 688 </font> 689 </div></div></td></tr> 690 </table></td></tr> 691 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507520'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 692 <center><a id='up_37507520'href='vote?id=37507520&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 693 <a href="user?id=Bright_Machine" class="hnuser">Bright_Machine</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:28:32"><a href="item?id=37507520">24 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507520"></span> <span class='navs'> 694 | <a href="#37507024" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507193" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507520" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 695 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 696 <span class="commtext c00">Only GNOME supports clipboard sharing with guests, because GNOME unifies X11 and Wayland clipboards in the compositor. None of the other Wayland DEs are supporting it since it requires special handling in their respective compositors.</span> 697 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 698 <u><a href="reply?id=37507520&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507520">reply</a></u> 699 </font> 700 </div></div></td></tr> 701 </table></td></tr> 702 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507193'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 703 <center><a id='up_37507193'href='vote?id=37507193&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 704 <a href="user?id=csdreamer7" class="hnuser">csdreamer7</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:39:08"><a href="item?id=37507193">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507193"></span> <span class='navs'> 705 | <a href="#37507024" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507520" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506876" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507193" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 706 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 707 <span class="commtext c00">How do you connect to AWS Workspace? Never used it before.<p>Have you tried opening a bug with them to see if just got broke in your display manager?</span> 708 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 709 <u><a href="reply?id=37507193&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507193">reply</a></u> 710 </font> 711 </div></div></td></tr> 712 </table></td></tr> 713 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506876'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='0'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="0"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 714 <center><a id='up_37506876'href='vote?id=37506876&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 715 <a href="user?id=rwmj" class="hnuser">rwmj</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:48:56"><a href="item?id=37506876">2 hours ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506876"></span> <span class='navs'> 716 | <a href="#37507024" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506876" n="8" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 717 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 718 <span class="commtext c00">Can Wayland run programs remotely yet?</span> 719 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 720 <u><a href="reply?id=37506876&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506876">reply</a></u> 721 </font> 722 </div></div></td></tr> 723 </table></td></tr> 724 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506907'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 725 <center><a id='up_37506907'href='vote?id=37506907&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 726 <a href="user?id=Thev00d00" class="hnuser">Thev00d00</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:55:21"><a href="item?id=37506907">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506907"></span> <span class='navs'> 727 | <a href="#37506876" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506946" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506907" n="2" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 728 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 729 <span class="commtext c00">Assuming you mean run an app over SSH, and are not just being facetious then sure, you can use waypipe[0] for that.<p>0. <a href="https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mstoeckl/waypipe/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mstoeckl/waypipe/</a></span> 730 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 731 <u><a href="reply?id=37506907&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506907">reply</a></u> 732 </font> 733 </div></div></td></tr> 734 </table></td></tr> 735 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507130'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 736 <center><a id='up_37507130'href='vote?id=37507130&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 737 <a href="user?id=jeroenhd" class="hnuser">jeroenhd</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:28:25"><a href="item?id=37507130">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507130"></span> <span class='navs'> 738 | <a href="#37506876" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37506907" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506946" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507130" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 739 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 740 <span class="commtext c00">I think it's a Gnome bug or something, but whenever I use Waypipe I keep getting "this application is not responding" popups.<p>The internet suggests increasing the responsiveness checker or disabling it entirely, but that makes Firefox unresponsive to mouse input.<p>Waypipe does have some great hardware acceleration advantages over remote X11 sessions, but for me it's currently not usable.</span> 741 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 742 <u><a href="reply?id=37507130&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507130">reply</a></u> 743 </font> 744 </div></div></td></tr> 745 </table></td></tr> 746 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506946'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 747 <center><a id='up_37506946'href='vote?id=37506946&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 748 <a href="user?id=jraph" class="hnuser">jraph</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:00:37"><a href="item?id=37506946">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506946"></span> <span class='navs'> 749 | <a href="#37506876" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506907" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> | <a href="#37506884" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506946" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 750 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 751 <span class="commtext c00">Someone mentioned waypipe which I don't know but which seems to be the way to go if one can use it (it does seem to require installing waypipe on the server).<p>In any case ssh -X still works fine out of the box, using which transparently uses XWayland behind the scene.<p>It has limitations compared to native Wayland like good support for multi screen with different DPIs, but the same limitations will be found in a native X11 session anyway.<p>So Wayland is at least not a downgrade on this topic. It's been handled well.</span> 752 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 753 <u><a href="reply?id=37506946&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506946">reply</a></u> 754 </font> 755 </div></div></td></tr> 756 </table></td></tr> 757 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37506884'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='1'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="40"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 758 <center><a id='up_37506884'href='vote?id=37506884&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 759 <a href="user?id=pluijzer" class="hnuser">pluijzer</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T09:51:06"><a href="item?id=37506884">2 hours ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37506884"></span> <span class='navs'> 760 | <a href="#37506876" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37506946" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37506884" n="4" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 761 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 762 <span class="commtext c00">I thought this was specifically not part of Wayland, am I wrong?</span> 763 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 764 <u><a href="reply?id=37506884&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337506884">reply</a></u> 765 </font> 766 </div></div></td></tr> 767 </table></td></tr> 768 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507267'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='2'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="80"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 769 <center><a id='up_37507267'href='vote?id=37507267&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 770 <a href="user?id=Qwertious" class="hnuser">Qwertious</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T10:47:48"><a href="item?id=37507267">1 hour ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507267"></span> <span class='navs'> 771 | <a href="#37506876" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37506884" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507267" n="3" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 772 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 773 <span class="commtext c00"><i>Sort of.</i> The foundational issue here is the longstanding premise "Wayland can replace X!". The problem is that <i>Wayland</i> can't replace X, only Wayland plus a bunch of other components - or as I like to call it, Wayland++.<p>So Wayland++ can provide network transparency, but whenever a W++ feature has issues and those issues are criticized, Wayland advocates will just motte-and-bailey the issue by saying "but that's not part of Wayland!", which is technically true but irrelevant. "Wayland" can mean Wayland++ or just Wayland-core, depending on what's convenient.</span> 774 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 775 <u><a href="reply?id=37507267&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507267">reply</a></u> 776 </font> 777 </div></div></td></tr> 778 </table></td></tr> 779 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507515'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='3'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="120"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 780 <center><a id='up_37507515'href='vote?id=37507515&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 781 <a href="user?id=dale_glass" class="hnuser">dale_glass</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:27:50"><a href="item?id=37507515">24 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507515"></span> <span class='navs'> 782 | <a href="#37506876" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507267" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507507" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">next</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507515" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 783 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 784 <span class="commtext c00">Wayland proper is a protocol specification. By it itself, it's completely inert and it's all up to an implementation.<p>The protocol uses shared memory buffers and file descriptors, so it can't be just transported through TCP as-is. You need something like waypipe, which parses part of the protocol, extracts things like file descriptors that won't make sense on the other end, and then reconstructs things on the destination.<p>waypipe turns out not to be that complicated, it's just 15K lines of code.</span> 785 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 786 <u><a href="reply?id=37507515&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507515">reply</a></u> 787 </font> 788 </div></div></td></tr> 789 </table></td></tr> 790 <tr class='athing comtr' id='37507507'><td><table border='0'> <tr> <td class='ind' indent='3'><img src="s.gif" height="1" width="120"></td><td valign="top" class="votelinks"> 791 <center><a id='up_37507507'href='vote?id=37507507&how=up&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654'><div class='votearrow' title='upvote'></div></a></center> </td><td class="default"><div style="margin-top:2px; margin-bottom:-10px;"><span class="comhead"> 792 <a href="user?id=j16sdiz" class="hnuser">j16sdiz</a> <span class="age" title="2023-09-14T11:27:03"><a href="item?id=37507507">25 minutes ago</a></span> <span id="unv_37507507"></span> <span class='navs'> 793 | <a href="#37506876" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">root</a> | <a href="#37507267" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">parent</a> | <a href="#37507515" class="clicky" aria-hidden="true">prev</a> <a class="togg clicky" id="37507507" n="1" href="javascript:void(0)">[–]</a><span class="onstory"></span> </span> 794 </span></div><br><div class="comment"> 795 <span class="commtext c00">outsourcing the responsibility that is.</span> 796 <div class='reply'> <p><font size="1"> 797 <u><a href="reply?id=37507507&goto=item%3Fid%3D37506654%2337507507">reply</a></u> 798 </font> 799 </div></div></td></tr> 800 </table></td></tr> 801 </table> 802 <br><br> 803 </td></tr> 804 <tr><td><img src="s.gif" height="10" width="0"><table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1"><tr><td bgcolor="#ff6600"></td></tr></table><br> 805 <center><a href="https://www.ycombinator.com/apply/">Applications are open for YC Winter 2024</a></center><br> 806 <center><span class="yclinks"><a href="newsguidelines.html">Guidelines</a> | <a href="newsfaq.html">FAQ</a> | <a href="lists">Lists</a> | <a href="https://github.com/HackerNews/API">API</a> | <a href="security.html">Security</a> | <a href="https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/">Legal</a> | <a href="https://www.ycombinator.com/apply/">Apply to YC</a> | <a href="mailto:hn@ycombinator.com">Contact</a></span><br><br> 807 <form method="get" action="//hn.algolia.com/">Search: <input type="text" name="q" size="17" autocorrect="off" spellcheck="false" autocapitalize="off" autocomplete="false"></form></center></td></tr> </table></center></body> 808 <script type='text/javascript' src='hn.js?SHesn9eAgOUdmXUfxZ4i'></script> 809 </html>